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Suitable Battery...Is It Decent? Did I Do Good?
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#1 (permalink)      7/9/2018 4:28:56 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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Morris68
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Suitable Battery...Is It Decent? Did I Do Good?
Recently received a Pulse BF and while I was really impressed with it's performance and feel (and looks when I got the Ultem replacement covers), I was somewhat disappointed that all of my 21700s left a noticeable gap on the front panel. A bit of forum research revealed that it's basically designed for 20700s only*...though it works great with a Sony VTC5 (or any good 18650), plus I did have one 20700 and I'm totally please with the mod now.

Just ordered a 1 NEW Panasonic Sanyo NCR 20700 B 4250mAh 20700 Li-on Rechargeable 3.7v Battery for $9.75 (free shipping) to have a spare...or should I run into the same situation with a future mod. Didn't really take the time to research it...could say I bought it for my Pulse on imPulse. Seems like I couldn't go too far wrong with a Panasonic Sanyo but I'd really appreciate the opinion(s) of any members more versed on batteries than I.


*I'll do some very basic modding but I'm not about to sand a battery!

Edited on 7/9/2018 at 4:30 PM. Reason:
“O wad some Power the giftie gie us, to see oursels as ithers see us!" Robert Burns
#2 (permalink)      7/9/2018 4:32:00 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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digitally_vaporized
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You don't sand the battery, you sand that fancy ultem panel. I've got several spare panels and some 21700s at the post office now, I'll be testing it later this week.

And yeah, I'm quite liking the mod too.

Edited on 7/9/2018 at 4:32 PM. Reason:
#3 (permalink)      7/10/2018 6:11:51 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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Morris68
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Thanks digitally_vaporized. The poster who mentioned sanding didn't specify where, was previously referring to batteries and it did strike me as kind of weird sanding a battery.

Just checked my new Vpdam Leon which I'd also recommend (but only if FT offers it at 1/2 price again) and it has a recess in the cover. Now I see it's purpose
“O wad some Power the giftie gie us, to see oursels as ithers see us!" Robert Burns
#4 (permalink)      7/10/2018 6:38:52 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
essellar
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The Sanyo 20700B is really only good for 30W and under. You can use it at (reasonable) higher power, but it becomes a very poor performer and won't seem to last as long as a cell with lower mAh capacity - you'll get more vape time off a cell that doesn't have as much voltage drop/sag, even if it wouldn't exhibit nearly as much capacity under lighter loads. If you're building at around 0.5Ω or higher, you're golden, but if you're dipping down much below half an ohm, one of the 3000 mAh cells would be a much better idea.
#5 (permalink)      7/16/2018 6:44:11 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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digitally_vaporized
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Fuck, I need a dremel. Can't recommend trying to sand it by hand. At least all the plastic dust I've inhaled should add years to my life.
#6 (permalink)      7/16/2018 7:57:21 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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Morris68
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@essellar Just received my NCR 20700 B 4250mAh 20700 and been running it on my Pulse with my NextEra LE last night and have been vaping it all day...not exclusively but a lot. Just stuck it on my Athena to check the resistance and it's .5ohm. Really love both the Pulse & the Next Era LE. How would I know the wattage is decided with the Pulse as it's a mech (think I have an idea but would appreciate an explanation for someone who really knows)?

Prior to that (and now in rotation) I do have the IJoy 20700 that came with the Ijoy Capo 100 which, despite a number or negative comments, I really like for the past 2 months. The fact that I got it on sale along with the battery and a pack of Cotton Bacon for $24.95 is a big part of the reason though it does empty the battery somewhat quickly.
“O wad some Power the giftie gie us, to see oursels as ithers see us!" Robert Burns
#7 (permalink)      7/16/2018 9:33:37 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
essellar
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The half-ohm thing is for use with mechs; it corresponds to about a 30W vape on a single cell (with a bit of margin for error - you'll get more power at a full charge than at the nominal 3.7V, and practically nobody is building a 0.5000Ω coil). With a 0.5Ω coil, your battery will drop from its no-load, fully-charged voltage of 4.2 volts to something around 3.8 to 3.9 volts when you press the firing button, which will give you a couple of puffs at 3.9^2 / 0.5 (voltage squared divided by resistance), or just over 30W. That will work its way down to around 18W when the battery really, really needs to be charged (about 3.3 volts resting and 3 volts under load), but you'll probably find the vape quite unsatisfactory before it gets that low.

That formula, again, is P = V^2/R. (Power equals voltage squared divided by resistance.)

The 30-ish watts is still a thing even on a regulated mod, where, ultimately, the resistance of the coil doesn't matter (at least not in direct terms). The mod will still draw the same current from the cell to give you 30W on a regulated device as you'd draw with a 0.5Ω coil on a mech (indeed, slightly more, especially as the charge diminishes).

The problem with the B cell is that it has quite high internal resistance, especially when it's warmed up a bit. That means it'll give you quite a lot of sag - voltage drop - under load. At a 0.5Ω coil resistance, it won't be a huge problem. You'll get a long run out of the cell before the voltage drops to an unsatisfactory level. If you use a lower-resistance coil, though, the battery sag will get quite severe quite quickly.
#8 (permalink)      7/16/2018 11:13:20 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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I have to chime in!!!
Sanyo NCR20700B isn't the battery for Mech mod, regulated mod yes, because it's 4000mAh @ 15A tested by Battery Mooch!
Sanyo NCR20700A is the one you want, but finding them is like a needle in a haystack! It's 3100mAH @ 30A...
The second best is the iJoy 3000mAh (2900mAh @ 30A) that has 5 legs on the top of the positive lead.

I'm using the iJoy 20700 in the Pulse BF mod with a single clapton 2x24/32G around 0.26ohms and another but dual coil clapton 2x26/36G around 0.16ohms...
I build for battery amperage nowadays, to get the perfect vape.
On a typical day from 8am until about 5:30pm is how long I can go with the iJoy 20700 on a single coil, half that using a dual coil. Cut an hour off using a VTC5A.
When in doubt? Hit it with a hammer!!! It'll work nicely afterwards...
#9 (permalink)      7/17/2018 5:08:31 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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Walker65
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That's the battery Im using in my Pulse. 1 ohm coil in a Dead Rabbit SQ at 28 watts. Very good battery life.
#10 (permalink)      7/17/2018 5:53:27 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
essellar
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phoenixbwp wrote:

I have to chime in!!!
Sanyo NCR20700B isn't the battery for Mech mod, regulated mod yes, because it's 4000mAh @ 15A tested by Battery Mooch!


He actually rates it lower than that: "Best used under 10A/30W". At 15A, the voltage sag and usable capacity are horrible, even if it's "safe".

That doesn't mean "don't use it in a mech". That means "don't use it beyond its capabilities", and it doesn't really matter much whether you're using it in a mech or a regulated device. A mech is inherently less safe, since there is no circuitry protecting you from your own mistakes, but there's nothing about a regulated device that magically makes a battery perform better. A regulated mod actually puts higher demand on a battery to get the same wattage at the coil. Your 0.26Ω build will run at a bit over 50W on a freshly-charged cell on a mech, with a small peak current of just over 16A when the button is pressed, coming down almost immediately to right around 15A. And those current demands will be exactly the same if you vape the same build at around 50W on a single-cell regulated mod, except that the demands will go up as the battery discharges rather than going down as they would on a mech. (With a mech, or in bypass mode on a reg, as the battery discharges, your vape gets weaker. In power mode, the mod will draw more current from the battery to make up for the loss in battery voltage, trying to maintain the same power.) If you're lucky, the battery voltage will sag enough for your regulated mod to decide it's out of juice before you get into trouble, but there's a good chance you'll be causing internal damage to the cells while thinking you're perfectly safe.

For a mech, figure out what the battery will do when it's fully charged with your build. That will tell you what your highest current demand will be.

For a regulated mod, figure out what the battery will do when it's nearly fully discharged with your desired power setting. That's where the highest current happens on a regulated device.

#11 (permalink)      7/17/2018 6:41:35 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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Morris68
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Excellent explanation, essellar (you too, phoenixbwp) and presented clearly enough the even I can grasp it (and I'm pretty dense about such matters...When someone mentions "Ohms Law" I often respond "Watt?"). Thanks for taking the time.
“O wad some Power the giftie gie us, to see oursels as ithers see us!" Robert Burns