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#1 (permalink)      8/27/2016 4:00:48 AM US Central   quote/reply + tips
supervapez711
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Schematic
I have had many of these chargers. Each one has performed slightly differently. I was curious why so I monitored the current and inspected the internals of all of them (around 10). Firstly there are two variations. You will not know which one you have w/o taking them apart. One type uses an IC with PWM to control the current instead of a resistor. Most others utilize the following circuit. These chargers are "dumb". The battery itself (EGO,EVOD,X6, etc.) starts and stops the charging process. The charger LED may not change colors. This usually means that your input voltage is sagging below 4.8V. The charging current can vary because the "A" and "B" resistors are almost never the same! If you are lucky they are each 10 ohm which puts the current at 300 mA (5V-3.5V/5ohm). Often the charge current is much lower. You should charge your battery with a current of around 1/2 of its capacity. I have added an extra resistor to a few chargers to boost the current. Its not terribly difficult as there are usually pads on the pcb to accommodate one. What is surprising to me is that these tiny surface mount resistors are happily dissipating up to .75W in some cases. Go figure. What you should take away from this is that all you really need is a 5V source and a 3 ohm resistor in series to charge your batteries. I am sure you guys can scrounge up a suitable resistor with all that kanthal lying around....
#2 (permalink)      8/27/2016 12:01:18 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
JPBel
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There are 2 types of ego "charger".

The one you refer too is not a lithium charger and only got current limiting using a simple resistance.
Only the red light is turned off when the battery's voltage reach ~4.2V
They have no charge termination at all and will try to charge the batteries up to the USB voltage if you let it on all night long.
This is the reason soo many ego batteries did go boom, or was set on fire.


The second type are using a TP4056 or an equivalent charge controller IC.
(Generally, thermal protection is not implimented, even if a TP4056 is used).

Open your ego charger case and take a look inside before using it.
If it only have a transistor and a few resistors and no IC, throw it in the garbage.
Or in the spare parts bin, just make sure you won't use it the charge lithium batteries by mistake.

Edited on 8/27/2016 at 12:08 PM. Reason:
#3 (permalink)      8/27/2016 1:06:47 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Game_Cat
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This is really interesting - the information that both have you have provided, so - thanks.

Often, misinformed people on vaping forums often say that you must use, for example, no more than a 0.5A power supply to charge a device that requires 0.5A to charge. I'm always trying to tell them that current is 'drawn and not pushed' - in other words, a device will only draw the current that it requires - so a 2A charger won't just try to push 2A into a device that only wants 0.5A.

They often try and give the example of people exploding their old eGo batteries by using, say, their 2A Apple USB chargers to charge their 400mAh batteries and them blowing up as a result.

The difference that JPBel described between the 'dumb' chargers and the TP4056-based 'smart' ones perfectly explains why some people's old eGo batteries went WOOF - it was very probably because they'd left them charging for too long regardless of the current rating of the PSU they used.

In fact - because the 'dumb' circuit is also a current limiter - the eGos would have blown up anyway, regardless of whether the PSU was rated at 2A or 0.5A.

Edited on 8/27/2016 at 1:07 PM. Reason:
#4 (permalink)      8/27/2016 1:14:10 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Hiko9
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Don't think i've ever seen one with TP4056 which is a pretty complex charge IC, capable of temperature monitoring (8 pin)

However, the ego chargers i've taken apart (mostly bought from FT) all had a 6 pin IC in them. Probably the same IC most of our mods use. The early DNA clone boards with chargers used a 6 pin IC, i've fitted a couple to FT's worst, cheapest, nastiest multisize chargers(which are like that schematic but with a few extra components because AC mains), the kind that get bundled with mod kits, to make them servicable micro usb travel chargers.

I've seen a couple of chargers bundled with 510 cigalikes that were like that schematic.. and a few that were just 2 wires, a usb plug, and a 510 male..

Edited on 8/27/2016 at 1:17 PM. Reason:
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#5 (permalink)      8/27/2016 1:16:28 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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Does the ego battery do any charge management or is it a direct connection to the battery?

Could I, for instance, remove the charging board from the ego charger and directly connect the ego pin to SKU 3938407 and use it in a 0.5A slot charger, like the xtar mc2?

Edited on 8/27/2016 at 1:18 PM. Reason:
#6 (permalink)      8/27/2016 1:19:31 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
Game_Cat
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Hiko9 wrote:

Don't think i've ever seen one with TP4056 which is a pretty complex charge IC, capable of temperature monitoring (8 pin)..


I (and JPBel, no doubt) were more referring to TP4056-type ICs, as they are the type that a lot of people are already familiar with - the surface mount 6-pin IC is undoubtedly it.


Edited on 8/27/2016 at 1:20 PM. Reason:
#7 (permalink)      8/27/2016 1:23:31 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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Having repaired a few, I'll also chime in, some have a diode on the charger output, some dont. Which is why some will drain the batt if unpluged from the USB, with the batt connected.

They should all have the batt removed first, power last, but really for those of us with too few wall outlets, and who share their home with those who always remember this simple sequence incorrectly, a diode will save a little grief...

Edited on 8/27/2016 at 1:25 PM. Reason:
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#8 (permalink)      8/27/2016 2:17:18 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
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quarks
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JPBel wrote:

There are 2 types of ego "charger".The one you refer too is not a lithium charger and only got current limiting using a simple resistance.Only the red light is turned off when the battery's voltage reach ~4.2VThey have no charge termination at all and will try to charge the batteries up to the USB voltage if you let it on all night long.This is the reason soo many ego batteries did go boom, or was set on fire.The second type are using a TP4056 or an equivalent charge controller IC.(Generally, thermal protection is not implimented, even if a TP4056 is used).Open your ego charger case and take a look inside before using it.If it only have a transistor and a few resistors and no IC, throw it in the garbage.Or in the spare parts bin, just make sure you won't use it the charge lithium batteries by mistake.




I thought the charge management circuit was built into the ego battery?
On the same circuit board that provides power output regulation.

#9 (permalink)      8/27/2016 5:16:37 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
supervapez711
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The dumb charger circuit that I described actually works quite well. The reason is that the battery is controlling the charge. Each of the various batteries I own terminate the charge at a slightly different voltage (4.05, 4.1, 4.17 etc.) every time with only a very slight variation determined by the internal circuitry. At the end of the charging process the battery stops all current flow..and the only current that the charger draws is enough to light the green led. I dont want to encourage people to disassemble/modify their chargers..but I am curious which chip this particular SKU utilizes. Heres a few I have with the 8-pin IC.. They also are slightly different! The top board is the dumb version which I have modified.



gamecat & wuwei: The 8-pin IC version is not a 4056 or variant. If you have a li-ion battery you should use a dedicated board/charger that controls the charge cycle completely. I tested the 8-pin EGO charger with a "vanilla" li-ion cell. Initially the battery seemed to be charging fine. The light turned red and the charger started drawing around 250mA. However, at the end of the charging process the battery voltage climbed past 4.2V and I removed the charger as it tried to push the battery past 4.25V.
#10 (permalink)      8/27/2016 5:41:44 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
wuwei.ap
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I was thinking the other way around. By just using the ego plug hardware, without the board, and a normal li-ion charger (xtar mc2 (0.5A)) for eGo batteries.
#11 (permalink)      8/27/2016 5:51:12 PM US Central   quote/reply + tips
supervapez711
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wuwei.ap wrote:

I was thinking the other way around. By just using the ego plug hardware, without the board, and a normal li-ion charger (xtar mc2 (0.5A)) for eGo batteries.



I see what you are saying. I actually tried that awhile back with a xtar MC1. It did not work. When I attached the EGO battery to the xtar the battery flashed and lit up like it was charging. The xtar LED turned red briefly indicating charging, then immediately turned green indicating full charge/trickle mode. The battery stayed lit during this sequence.